Edelweiss Loads To ANC

submitted by ANCsupercub

With the tourist season quickly coming to a close, I was wondering if anyone had any information on how well WK did on the ANC-ZRH? I have flown to FRA many times on DE and it always seems to be full. It would be nice to see another permanent option to Europe from Anchorage.

all comments

1. wedgetail737

Maybe WK will follow in DE's footsteps and start SEA-ZRH next year or so.

2. ANCsupercub

Hey I could see that, but it did take a lot of years before condor decided to serve seattle.

3. connector4you

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 1):

Maybe WK will follow in DE's footsteps and start SEA-ZRH next year or so.

I think Anchorage is doing quite well during the summer with loads from both Condor and Edelweiss. Same goes for Vancouver.

DE's service to Seattle is new, started this year and for now loads are not that great. There are still last minute good deals to Frankfurt from Vancouver via Seattle (Horizon Connection) whereas direct nonstop YVR-FRA are sold out.

Condor seems to be wiling to establish itself as a household airline on the Anchorage-Vancouver-Seattle triangle offering attractive and convenient open jaw tickets to and from Frankfurt. Condor's advantage over Edelweiss and Air Berlin in regards to load factor steams out of their flights frequency and the length of their scheduled service that runs until the end of October. That fits extremely well with Pacific Northwest budget-vacationers to Europe.

Edelweiss also increased its seat capacity on these routes this summer using now a brand new A330-300 (up from a A332)

Let's wait and see who is gonna be the first leisure airline to fly year-around between Europe and Pacific Northwest

4. LAXintl

Keep in mind Edelweiss is a charter airline.

Its not Edelweiss that decides where or how its going to fly, its the large tour companies such as Kuoni (its former owner) and now Swiss (its new owner) and their leisure customers that drive the season by season network decisions.

5. AA737-823

Quoting connector4you (Reply 3):

Condor seems to be wiling to establish itself as a household airline on the Anchorage-Vancouver-Seattle triangle offering attractive and convenient open jaw tickets to and from Frankfurt.

I know that here in Anchorage, among the flying community (which is nearly all Alaskans), they pretty much already ARE A household name airline!
I have lots of friends that take their families to places all over Europe via Condor.
Sadly, I'm a *A guy, so I'm stuck taking CO (UA?) to Seattle, then IAH/EWR, then FRA, then final destination, just to keep my miles account flowing.... but otherwise, I'd definitely take DE. Friends of mine were upgraded to Comfort Class for free once.... just asked if there were two seats next to each other available.

6. Viscount724

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):

Keep in mind Edelweiss is a charter airline.

On many routes, their seats can be booked like any scheduled carrier and are distributed in GDS. Many of their flights, including those routes, operate as LX codeshares.

[Edited 2011-09-03 14:57:00]

7. LAXintl

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):

On many routes, their seats can be booked like any scheduled carrier and are distributed in GDS. Many of their flights, including those routes, operate as LX codeshares.

Never the less they are a charter carrier. Being schedule charter, or all-inclusive charter still makes them a charter.

I have had business dealing with them in the past, and they have virtually no say to how and where they fly. Its all driven by their parent owners and large tour operator demand.

8. wedgetail737

Quoting connector4you (Reply 3):

DE's service to Seattle is new, started this year and for now loads are not that great. There are still last minute good deals to Frankfurt from Vancouver via Seattle (Horizon Connection) whereas direct nonstop YVR-FRA are sold out.

That's too bad. I hope they come back next season, but it might be too much capacity between DE and LH. SEA does have a lot of capacity to Europe in general. If Edelweiss were to start SEA-ZRH, it could be a bit different because it's totally different destination.

9. LONGisland89

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):

I have had business dealing with them in the past, and they have virtually no say to how and where they fly

I would not say they have virtually no say to how and where they fly. Of course there is some dictation from LX, however the company is managed independently and they make numerous operational decisions on their own. Making them sound like LX's pawn isn't entirely accurate.

10. connector4you

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):

Many of their flights, including those routes, operate as LX codeshares.

That's right Zurich to Vancouver it's an Edelweiss / Swiss codeshare.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):

Never the less they are a charter carrier. Being schedule charter, or all-inclusive charter still makes them a charter.

Even though both Edelweiss and Condor are scheduled - seasonal charters they are bookable online (various GDS channels) but I think that's a clever idea since they can cater simultaneous for the needs of tour-operators and budget travelers at large. That way load factors could only go up and the next logical step-up for them in order to expand year around regular service is steady incremental boosts in capacity / frequency

After just few years of operating what you would call "all-inclusive charter" into Vancouver, Edelweiss - just like Condor, ThomasCook, AirTransat or Air Berlin for that reason - opened up their online booking / LX codesharing, started diversifying their Pacific Northwest destinations and now here they are boosting their aircraft capacity to an Airbus A330-300 from a A332. I wouldn't be surprised to see them opening Seattle or boosting their frequencies on Anchorage and Vancouver next summer.

In my opinion there is a niche market out here that screams out for this new economic model to takeoff.

11. YXXMIKE

Quoting connector4you (Reply 10):

In my opinion there is a niche market out here that screams out for this new economic model to takeoff.

Have Edelweiss been able to attract much Vancouver or Pacific Northwest business going the other way or is it mainly focused on the inbound tourists from Switzerland?

12. connector4you

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 11):

Have Edelweiss been able to attract much Vancouver or Pacific Northwest business going the other way or is it mainly focused on the inbound tourists from Switzerland?

Good question. Edelweiss brand new A330-300 is configured as 36 Business / 296 Economy and is the only direct nonstop business class seat product available on a charter airline! Condor offers a Comfort Class which I think is an inferior product while Air Transat has Club Class as an alternative to economy, Air Berlin flies a one class configuration aircraft. So I think, if you are a business man looking for a business class seat on a direct nonstop Vancouver to Zurich your only option is ... EDELWEISS ( May to mid-September for now)

13. mah4546

Quoting connector4you (Reply 12):

Air Berlin flies a one class configuration aircraft

Air Berlin is two-class on schedule routes, YVR included.

Quoting connector4you (Reply 12):

if you are a business man looking for a business class seat on a direct nonstop Vancouver to Zurich your only option is ... EDELWEISS

If you are a business man, you aren't flying Edelweiss, period. The business class product, while it might be comfortable, is in no way competitive.

14. YXXMIKE

Quoting connector4you (Reply 12):

Good question. Edelweiss brand new A330-300 is configured as 36 Business / 296 Economy and is the only direct nonstop business class seat product available on a charter airline! Condor offers a Comfort Class which I think is an inferior product while Air Transat has Club Class as an alternative to economy, Air Berlin flies a one class configuration aircraft. So I think, if you are a business man looking for a business class seat on a direct nonstop Vancouver to Zurich your only option is ... EDELWEISS ( May to mid-September for now)

Sorry, I wasn't referring to business class product more load factor going back to ZRH. Is there a mix of Canadians & Swiss on board are these packages mainly being focused towards Swiss inbound tourists?

15. Viscount724

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 13):

Quoting connector4you (Reply 12):

if you are a business man looking for a business class seat on a direct nonstop Vancouver to Zurich your only option is ... EDELWEISS

If you are a business man, you aren't flying Edelweiss, period. The business class product, while it might be comfortable, is in no way competitive.

Also have to consider the fare. Many cost-conscious business travellers are willing to accept the AB type of product.

16. connector4you

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 13):

Air Berlin is two-class on schedule routes, YVR included.

Thanks mah4546, my bad, indeed Air Berlin also offer Business Class on flights between Vancouver and Dusseldorf. I remember flying them few years back and I still have fond memories of their cabin crew service.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 13):

The business class product, while it might be comfortable, is in no way competitive.

I found this 3D rendition of Edelweiss new A330-300 business class cabin section and it looks quite comfortable. I wouldn't imagine that Swiss would market these seats without making sure that the product is up to par with their own. Not sure how competitive this product would be though against Air Berlin's business class. Would you care to share some insights ?

http://www.edelweissair.ch/e/business-class/comfort/

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 14):

Is there a mix of Canadians & Swiss on board are these packages mainly being focused towards Swiss inbound tourists?

I wouldn't have that information.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):

Also have to consider the fare. Many cost-conscious business travellers are willing to accept the AB type of product.

Agree, Edelweiss charges around CAD 5,500 for a round trip while Air Berlin's can be booked at CAN 3,500.

17. woodsboy

Condor is indeed a household name even here in Fairbanks where they have been in the market for a decade. Its a popular choice for Fairbanksans summer Europe travel, it saves you 2 days (at least) in travel time and the fares are quite reasonable, especially early and late in the season. Alaska in general has seen marked increases in European visitors while tourism from the Lower 48 has remained flat or increased only very small amounts year over year. Edelweiss and Condor are both cashing in on the demand and doing well. With both Condor and Edelweiss serving ANC and Condor serving Fairbanks there is an established pipeline for travelers coming from Europe to easily access Alaska for 5 months of the year. Go anywhere in Alaska during the summer months (and winter to some extent) and listen to what language is being spoken at the table next to you, on the air taxi, on the river raft, on the flight seeing helicopter, more often than not, its German, French, Spanish...etc.

Im really happy that these European airlines have been able to make a go of the Alaska market and be successful. Even struggling JAL serves Fairbanks on a charter basis in the winter with leusure passengers, if they didnt see it necessary to cut that route during their wholesale slashing of their route network and fleet, that says a lot about the demand into AK.

18. panamair

Quoting connector4you (Reply 16):

I found this 3D rendition of Edelweiss new A330-300 business class cabin section and it looks quite comfortable. I wouldn't imagine that Swiss would market these seats without making sure that the product is up to par with their own

Those Business seats are essentially the same as the old Swiss A330-200 J seats. I find them quite uncomfortable, especially the leg/footrest as it only extends out half-way; and not really suitable for anyone to stretch their legs except really short people. That being said, WK charges appropriately for those J seats (i.e., not as expensive as "regular" J fares on scheduled airlines).